Author Topic: Brigandine Grand Edition...  (Read 385912 times)

Offline HwitVlf

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2015, 06:11:11 pm »
I suppose easy is a relative term. A lot of games AIs only have to deal with attacking a single player character with little to no variation based on player/enemy stats. The AI in Brigandine has to account for all possible available targets, and add adjustments for variables such as attack/defense elements, path availability, creature HP, and maintaining a defense line to protect the enemy knight. I suspect Brigandine's AI requires a lot more CPU cycles than a basic combat game or FPS, and that's all withing the confines of the PS1 old CPU. Being surrounded by enemies in GE give serious penalties to hit/miss and critical chances. I've noticed the AI trying to surround my units more than I remember from LoF.

As far as being a "purist", not nearly as much was modified as it might seem based on all the ranting going on, and no one seems to comprehend that Atlus changed even more in LoF. The changes I made to creatures in the first release were done way back when I first started this project (I didn't even remember what they were it had been so long) and I actually thought people might welcome the slight variation in gameplay. Name changes, of which there are only a handful, were mostly done to eliminate some Engrishy conventions caused by Japanese trying to use English- 99% of the names in Brigandine are English words spelled phonetically in Japanese. They didn't pick those names because they sounded good or made sense in English, they were picked because they sounded 'cool' in Japanese. As such, I consider it a flaw to leave them in their Engrishy form.

An example is Ouroboros which I changed to Jormungandr. Ouroboros is a generic name for the symbol of a snake formed into a circle and biting its own tail. Jormungandr is the Norse serpent who grew so big that he circled the word and bit his own tail (thus becoming one of the earliest incarnations of the Ouroborus symbol). At the time of Ragnarok, it was said that Jormungandr would emerge and fight to destroy the world. In Brigandine, the end boss is most often called "The Serpent of Chaos", which is a proper noun for Jormungandr. The end boss is clearly a reference to Jormungandr. So why did the Japanese use the name Ouroborus? Because in Japanese, letter sounds are consonants squished together with a vowel. Double consonants are uncomfortable to their language and thus frequently avoided in naming conventions. If I restricted the English translation based on Japanese language sensibilities, it would be a disservice to the English audience.

Another example is the equipment item that gives a unit the ability to walk on water unhindered. The literal Japanese name is Water Spider- probably a reference to water bugs that that skip on the water's surface. That literal name would mean nothing to most English speakers. I changed them to Water Striders because I believe that non-literal translation is actually closer in meaning to the original Japanese than the literal name.

Overall, there were very few things that are altered or "westernized". There wasn't a need to as Brigandine is largely a westernized game to begin with. In the end, this isn't a project I'm selling so it doesn't hurt me if someone doesn't want to use it. Sure I'd be happy if everyone said "yay, it's wonderful", but I feel a greater responsibility to turn out a product that I'm proud of than to put out a product that's popular. It's borderline insanity for English speakers to avoid my project because I changed a few things. It's certainly not hurting me and they'll be missing out on quite a bit of content/nuance that was hacked out in the LoF release.

Here's one example. In the "Teath gives a gift to Yura" event, in LoF Atlus removed the line where Teath actually blurts out that he "loves" Yura. Because of that, it plays out that he's trying to drum up the courage to speak his feelings, but Yura runs off before he can. In the real event, Yura runs off because Teath says he loves her. She obviously doesn't return his feelings. It's far more poignant than the LoF watered down version. There are literally hundreds of subtle but significant differences like that which were lost in the Atlus' LoF translation. To avoid experiencing that because I called the Vampire Lord a Lich is just shooting yourself in the foot.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 06:14:44 pm by HwitVlf »

Offline Tony0075

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2015, 08:25:50 pm »
I just always liked how the paladin and avenger were perfectly opposed but now it seems like the paladin has the edge head to head .

Offline Tony0075

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2015, 08:27:15 pm »
Does anyone know if its possible to get Kazan the other ninja before the empire is gone ? I always wanted to do a head to head  with the empire last to go . Or can someone else become a ninja with out Shirahra or Kazan ?

Offline HwitVlf

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2015, 11:44:47 pm »
If the Avenger were 2x black, they would take more damage from the Paladin's 3x white attacks. The way Grand Edition is set up. if the damage is being boosted  (ie white attack VS black unit), it's increased even more for each white dot in the attack and each dark dot in the defender. So 3x white attack vs 2x black defense would double the damage-bonus compared to 3x white vs 1x black.

It does seem a bit imbalanced that  the Avenger doesn't have a 3x black attack option, or at least a 2x black+1 red.

I think Kazan only joins after Esgares is defeated and Shiraha has re-joined an enemy country. You can only convert a knights to Shadow class units if Kazan or Shiraha is on your side and the knight is a male whose an expert ranger and with decent AGI and STR stats. You could try cheat codes to make it happen. :ninja:
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 11:52:23 pm by HwitVlf »

Offline Chazchu

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2015, 07:49:16 am »
I actually liked some of the changes - for example the Solid spell instead of Charm on the Enchantress, but I disliked the idea that a Loki would get Beguile and Meteor Doom was a red spell. There is no equivalent to the Holy Word this way, so I think balance was off. Everything else that was changed, I had no issue, excluding one class name :D. The only thing I am sad I won't see return from LoF is the Lizzard Guard's breath attack.

On a sidenote, I'd love to see a larger map to play at, with more castles and nations, because Forsena is a tad small for any long games with friends. Maybe some mods might make this happen and we could see larger nations and more knights, but I doubt it will any time soon.

Offline dpbj602

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2015, 01:26:22 pm »
I really like being able to be strategic with debuffs in this edition, by being able to see the hit %

Offline HwitVlf

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2015, 02:00:47 pm »
Chazchu, I have to agree about Meteor Doom being red and the Loki missing a mass damage ability. Those were two of the biggest reasons I changed it back  :drool:.

I really REALLLY REEEEEAAAAALLLLY wish someone would make a Brigandine expansion or total-remake mod. The way the game is laid out makes it fairly easy to do so. Specifically, most of the data is arranged into table arrays so adding new stuff is simply a matter of adding a new entry in said table. It just takes time and determination!

dpbj602, absolutely! I don't think I ever used "might miss" spells like Dimension in LoF; it was just too risky to waste a turn. Being able to see the hit% in GE makes a huge strategic difference. The tutorial has some interesting info about what affects hit% if you don't already know  :smile:

Offline Erovoros

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2015, 04:02:38 pm »
HwitVlf, thank you for the awesome job!
I've been looking after this project every single day since you started to post results about it. Thank you so much for that. Just finished Caerleon campaing and going to start playing as Esgares.
LoF was the game that defined my childhood. I am Russian myself, and we had Brigandine LoF only in Russian with horrible machine translation made by some team of pirates. But we were still playing this game without any chance to understand the plot. It became the favorite game for many people.
I've been waiting for Grand Edition translation for years, I even started to learn Japanese in order to play it one day, though I abandonned my studies after a year.
I just wish that more people will find your translation patch and play this awesome game. You should probably post it on fan-translation related resources.
I hope one day I will use your patch to make a fan translation of this game into Russian, as not so many people here know English, but I am sure, many fans of original Brigandine want to try the expanded version.
And once again, I sincerelly thank you for your work and heart you put into this project.

Offline Tony0075

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2015, 05:20:56 pm »
Does anyone know a code that can turn Hyde into a ninja without having Shiraha or Kazan on your team ? Forsena.org had them all but its gone .

Offline duredure

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Re: Brigandine Grand Edition...
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2015, 11:42:46 am »
Sorry I thought having read the pag 4 but no XD

Very nice this grand patch. I love good ideas and I'm hoping for more mods!!!
Btw: why brigandine Ge(even forsena) have this bugged %hit
come on I remember in 90's playing forsena and missed a lot hits even with 80-85% and the enemy counter with 40-45% and hit me
Yesterday in Brigandine Ge my dinadan had 98% and enemy 65% I missed and he not  Wtf! I don't think this is based on luck or easy/normal or hard mode

Another thing
Bro I don't critic or nothing your amazing work. I like and respect your translation because I know that your are better than Atlus in everyway. You made a lots examples here saying about the changes like paladin to blademaster/ vampire lord to lich/ ouroboros to jurgmandour/items etc.
But even if the translation of atlus in forsena was wrong we get used because was the first one and this bring us old memories. Do you Remember some time ago when I told you about the translation of tactics ogre from ps1 to psp? they changed a lot names/items and classes and made a lot players sad(even me). Ex: I know that lots players loved that archer girl called "Aloser" and they changed to Arycelle only because is the correct. Ofcourse that who never played tactics ogre in 90's don't care about the changes But we that played do.

This feeling is the same in forsena and grand edition. I love your work and I'm playing almost everyday your ge at my xperia play before sleep. I stopped playing forsena in the end of 90's. Thanks to you I'm playing again and happy.
Bro I don't want ask to you do nothing I only want to know if is hard change at least the classes in Ge to forsenas name? Takes a lot time to do it?

Btw: there's an item(maybe rare) in forsena that I never managed to get " cat o' nine tails". I didn't see in Ge yet. It still exist in Ge?

 :beerchug:
That sounds funky. What's the CRC32 value for your disk image? Maybe you got a bad image.

There's a description of what the Battle patch does a few posts up,
Quote
gives enemy nations extra mana, higher class creatures, a minor boost to the stats of their knights each turn, and removes the timer.
but the best thing is probably just to try and see.