King's Field III {spoilers, conspiracies, and more!}

[Xethuminra]

That could actually fit! Since Vallad is the Earth dude, who would be re-unified when the two dragons were defeated.

  I think I might be an official nerd 

                           

I think, but wouldn't swear to it, someone on these forums has suggested in the Japanese version at least that Guyra was female?  I think it was Holydiver who made the claim insisting he had read all the Japanese text but I couldn't be certain.
John - wanna take a stab at that one...I know you've had your fair share of time reading through the Japanese dialogs.

I looked through the references to Guyra in KF2(Jap) and then used those to look up the original Japanese text and I don't find any reference to Guyra being female. Japanese isn't big on gender-determining pronouns so it's often hard to tell. There are several forms of "I" that can tell gender, but I don't find any of those. Other people always refer to him as Guyra without a gender determiner.

I did find one place where the word "mother" is used in the same sentence as Guyra's name, but it isn't referring to Guyra. The official translation read:

The Guards of Endless Time are the Woods, the Winds and the Fog. Everything is created and destroyed by the earth. For everyone who loves their mother, Guyra must be destroyed.

What it actually says is:

The fog, wind and forest guard the eternal cycle. Everything is created and destroyed by the will of the earth. You must defeat Guyra for everyone who loves mother earth.

Maybe someone thought 'mother earth' was referring to guyra?  If someone wants to double check my translation:

永遠の時を護るもの、それは森と風そして霧。
すべては大地の意志により創りだされ、また滅びる。
大地を母とする者達のためギーラを倒さねばならぬ。

Attached are some interesting bits about Guyra from KF(US):

Where is this text found in game?

This is one in Vallad's favor, for once

Vallad doesn't appear to be female but, according to him and only him, "he" mothered Seath, Guyra and pretty much all life on Earth.

As to the "fog, winds, and woods" reference, any idea what that means?

Still looking for lore about Dragon Grass and Dragon Fruit Trees

[HwitVlf]

I had been using Miria and Millia interchangeably, which is incorrect... More or less ;)

"Sleeping Quarters of Guyra"
"This is the fifth level of the Royal Cemetery. The dragon which appears there is actually Millia, the projected shadow of Guyra. Created by Guyra, Millia protects this place where Guyra hopes to return to the earth...."

I remember that line. It's a mis-translation, or more precisely a misunderstanding of the text because the translator lacked context. They didn't know that there were two people involved so they assumed Miria referred to the dragon.

Here's a rough literal translation of that text:
 

Guyra's Sleeping Chamber
Originally the 5th level of the Royal Graveyard.
The dragon here is a projected figure of Guyra, and Miria is said to be one of those made by Guyra, it is just here that the mind of Guyra survives, this is believed to be the place where Guyra descended.

ギーラの寝所
元王家墓所5層。存在していた竜は
ギーラの姿が投影されたもの。そし
てミーリアはギーラによって造られ
たものであるといわれ、ギーラの思
念が残るこここそが、ギーラが降り
立った場所であると考えられている

Where is this text found in game?

I seem to remember hearing it in-game near the end, but I don't remember where. I got it off the game disk. The dialog order in the data appears to be the same as it is said by speakers in the game. This quote is 2 panels after something that was apparently said by Earnest Clyde. So the quote was probably said by him or someone near him.

As to the "fog, winds, and woods" reference, any idea what that means?

I would speculate that it means the forces of nature maintain a healthy balance of life and death in the world.  Because Guyra is toying with that natural order, he is an enemy to the very fabric of creation.

Attached is a complete copy of the text off the game disk from King's Field 2 (US). I think it would be so cool to create a codex of dialog for each character, and also entries for what is said about various key topics.

[Xethuminra]

Boo!
-makes ghostly noises-

 

"believed to the place where Guyra descended"?

any more on this?

Does it mean that the Cemetery is the place where Guyra was born? If so, Seath should be involved as well, since they were both born at the same time, split in half, allegedly.

I'm beginning to wonder if Vallad, Seath and Guyra aren't just manifestations of the same malevolent Entity, putting on different faces for different people until something works.

How NPC's and players alike could praise the Sword of Moonlight as being a holy relic, when its sole purpose in the universe is harvesting energy for the resurrection of Guyra, is beyond me.

Again, an agent of Guyra gave the SoM to the Forrester family in the days of old and set in motion this entire chain of strange events.

Accidental or intentional?

Why wouldn't the Forest Dragon just give it to Guyra?

[HwitVlf]

The word I translated as "descended" seems to usually mean something like "landed" as in "the astronauts landed on the moon", but it contains the separate components of "stood up after going down". It might simply mean that this is where Guyra retreated to after his defeat on Melenant.

Xethuminra, you should make a graphic novel that pulls all these theories together into an extended story. 

[Xethuminra]

So, I've been thinking....

What could have allowed Seath to suddenly possess the good King Alfred?

In King's Field IV, the Idol of Sorrow is responsible for such things.

Then it occurred to me

Alfred has Seath's Dark Slayer

What else could it be?

The Dark Slayer was crafted from a Black Crystal left behind by none other than Seath himself. It was brought back from Melenat to Verdite by Alexander when he recovered the Sword of Moonlight. 

Coincidence?

When Alfred is defeated, he leaves behind the Dark Slayer and if you don't have the Sword of Moonlight..... It is strongly implied that Lyle is also possessed by Seath.
 
What could have possibly caused this? If not the Dark Slayer.

Interestingly enough, Dias may have been possessed by the Sword of Moonlight, which belongs to the element of light and was created by Guyra.... and is also related to a Black Crystal.

When he steals the Sword of Moonlight, Dias is "attracted by a man in the darkside" to the island of Melenat....

Could these two products of the mysterious Black Crystals be the reason for Dias and Alfred's descent into darkness?

[HwitVlf]

That actually make a lot of sense to me! The time seems to line up right also.

[Xethuminra]

It would seem that there is more than meets the eye with every character in King's Field.

Jean somehow gets possessed by Seath.

Alexander, with all that pomp in KFII's eplougue... yeah, that guy.... he ends up dead not long after returning from Melanat. Thx for the head's up, narrator dude

Seath turns out to be evil

Guyra ends up being helpful

The Forest Dragon was working for Guyra

Tsedeck and Shuddom were jerks.

I would not be surprised if Vallad was the same way....

Does anybody here have access to Vallad's Japanese dialogue and truth mirror description?

I would really appreciate it if you posted it :-)

[HwitVlf]

I'm going to be really bust for a couple days, but I'll try to do this soon. I'm curious myself.

In the first two KF games the 'hero' turns out to be the villain (Forest Dragon, Seath) so it makes it a bit hard to feel 'at peace' with the end of the trilogy. I sure wish they'd make a new KF.

[HwitVlf]

Any chance you could post screen shots of the Japanese dialog? I don't have a save near the area ad I'm having trouble finding it in the data...

[Xethuminra]

Vallad did exist in the Japanese the same as the US version.  Here are a couple interesting Japanese links:

Encyclopedia Auto-Trans

Relation chart Japanese / Auto Trans

The significant changes that I know of were the source of the Moonlight Sword, and the single warrior who supposedly saved Verdite in ancient times became a group of Dragon Warriors.

I don't think Agetec was mistranslating, they were partnered with Fromsoft during the development of KF2(US) and contributed to the story from the beginning. It's just that since KFJ was never released in the US I think Agetec didn't feel compelled to include its lore in the English storyline whereas the Japanese version had to.

These links contain all the info to answer my questions. Thx again