How is SOM different (or not different) from what people do with PC games (mods)

[dmpdesign]

Let me clarify...when I refer to SOM I am meaning as it was produced and supported by the parent company.

Additionally, you are correct, perfected was a poor choice of words to use in regards to those platforms, what I should have said is that they both deliver a product that has a much wider usability and application (2D, 3D, rpg/fps/shmup/platformer/puzzle/strategy etc), along with a very large community and developer base to offer support and customization.

[Holy_Diver]

Let me clarify...when I refer to SOM I am meaning as it was produced and supported by the parent company.

Additionally, you are correct, perfected was a poor choice of words to use in regards to those platforms, what I should have said is that they both deliver a product that has a much wider usability and application (2D, 3D, rpg/fps/shmup/platformer/puzzle/strategy etc), along with a very large community and developer base to offer support and customization.

I don't know the ins and outs. But I think the claim to application is just that these are graphics engines and not game development platforms. I think SOM will eventually be able to address any game that has characters. You will probably be able to make Tetris with it, but I don't think it should spread so thin that that would be a natural fit. But it will only do so by gradually integrating those formats into a framework that forces the users hand into making good games.

I want to stress the word good. Because I don't see a whole lot of goodness coming of all of these platforms. So they must be doing something wrong. Even now Verdite's Rathmor plays better than any first person game I've played in years. Honestly better than any first person game I've ever played. Anyway. It is telling that SOM, at this early stage, can so easily do so much better than all of the might and many efforts of the video game industry.

At the end of the day someone just has to sit down and make the better game. Throwing all of the money in the world at that problem doesn't make it materialize. The problem remains. Someone still has to make that better game. And all truth be told, mo' money mo' problems.

[Madison Lastrega]

ya know, I have to agree 100% on that point.... One of the things I love about SOM is that, it makes 1st person with a classic feel and look that has been lost by modern more fancy engines..

Good example.... Final Fantasy II or (IV in japan) was made by like 20 something, nerdy dudes in Japan on modified commadore 64's, with love and passion.... Great RPG..... This year for IOS and Android Square remade it, like they did for Final Fantasy III and granted it looks good. Plays good and is an awesome reboot. It probably took 2/3 of Japan to make this thing.   But I still love going through the class SNES title in all it's 16 bit glory..Who knows maybe some will say the same about mine, I doubt it, The first Swordquest games were hard as S*%T, confusing and random and had sucky graphics :-) .............. Thats all. Sorry if that was off topic............................. ML

[Holy_Diver]

That FF4 remake has been around for a long time. It was probably on one of Nintendo's portables originally.

I just want to be clear. When I said Rathmor plays better. What I really meant to say is Ex plays better. And by play I mean the 3D controls are better than any game on the market. That's not a bid for nostalgia. It's literally a better game, even at this early stage of development.

Rathmor could easily be the game of the year. Not because Verdite is so great, but because the competition is so pathetic. That's what happens to the competition when it has gone so long without any competition.

[HwitVlf]

I don't know if anyone has considered, but a SoM-like platform could actually be made using an engine like Unity. All it would take is to make a game exe core that reads external configuration files to decide the particulars of how it plays.  That would certainly be easier than trying to squish SoM into mimicking a modern game engine. Unity games are far more commercially viable anything SoM will ever be and there's already a whole team of people working to make games cross-platform and fix any bugs that pop up.

To me, SoM had two things going for it, it made 1st person games, and it was considerable easier to use than any other 3D rpg makers on the market. The more complexity that gets added to SoM, the more it just becomes a pale version of other engines already on the market. It was just for making fun fan- games. SoM will never make commercially viable games simply because no one in their right mind would make a game they intended to sell on an engine which they technically have no right to distribute. As long as a game has one scrap of SoM's game.exe in it, it will never be viable to sell. And if game.exe is eventually cut out of the equation, then why on earth would you start building around SoM in the first place?

Game engines are a trade off between ease of use and complexity of feature set. Most amateurs would pick ease of use, whereas pros look for the advanced feature sets.  I don't think an engine can or should try to appeal to both classes. You just end up being a mediocre product for both.

[Holy_Diver]

I don't know if anyone has considered, but a SoM-like platform could actually be made using an engine like Unity. All it would take is to make a game exe core that reads external configuration files to decide the particulars of how it plays.  That would certainly be easier than trying to squish SoM into mimicking a modern game engine. Unity games are far more commercially viable anything SoM will ever be and there's already a whole team of people working to make games cross-platform and fix any bugs that pop up.

To me, SoM had two things going for it, it made 1st person games, and it was considerable easier to use than any other 3D rpg makers on the market. The more complexity that gets added to SoM, the more it just becomes a pale version of other engines already on the market. It was just for making fun fan- games. SoM will never make commercially viable games simply because no one in their right mind would make a game they intended to sell on an engine which they technically have no right to distribute. As long as a game has one scrap of SoM's game.exe in it, it will never be viable to sell. And if game.exe is eventually cut out of the equation, then why on earth would you start building around SoM in the first place?

Except you'd tie your product to Unity. Yuck. And since when can you not sell you game with SOM's game.exe file?

A SOM game isn't the exe file. It's the files that make up the game. We support the exe because it's like the soul of SOM. You use it for benchmarking. But it won't be necessary. SOM is going to be around for hundreds of years. Dependence on the original runtimes will probably not even be there on the first day that SOM becomes a totally viable platform.

People working with SOM now are just getting ahead of the curb.

Game engines are a trade off between ease of use and complexity of feature set. Most amateurs would pick ease of use, whereas pros look for the advanced feature sets.  I don't think an engine can or should try to appeal to both classes. You just end up being a mediocre product for both.

The truth is no one has a clue what they are doing. Video games vs. movies is pre talkies days. Until some standards emerge we got nothing.

[Madison Lastrega]

That FF4 remake has been around for a long time. It was probably on one of Nintendo's portables originally.

not the gameboy advance title, I meant this one     
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.square_enix.android_googleplay.FFIV_GP&feature=search_result#?t=W10.

Best 15 bucks I spent in some time however, the 16 bit version still is the best..... I will probably never go through this new version ever again , in fact I have already deleted it since completing it. The SNES version I will most certainly play again, and again :)                       .............................ML

[HwitVlf]

And since when can you not sell you game with SOM's game.exe file?

You know as well as I do. You just aren't being honest to yourself.

SoM's EULA
"By installing, copying, or the use of the software, you accept to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement... This license agreement grants the following rights to customers.  You may install and use Software on one computer per copy of the software.  Users of networks may store or install this software across an internal network, but you must obtain a special license for each computer where the software is distributed or used...  Restrictions: You may not reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble this software product, nor separate components of this software which is licensed as a single product. You can not separate components for use on more than one computer.  You may not loan, rent or lease the software product. You may not duplicate the manual that comes with the software product." 

[Holy_Diver]

And since when can you not sell you game with SOM's game.exe file?

You know as well as I do. You just aren't being honest to yourself.

SoM's EULA
"By installing, copying, or the use of the software, you accept to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement... This license agreement grants the following rights to customers.  You may install and use Software on one computer per copy of the software.  Users of networks may store or install this software across an internal network, but you must obtain a special license for each computer where the software is distributed or used...  Restrictions: You may not reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble this software product, nor separate components of this software which is licensed as a single product. You can not separate components for use on more than one computer.  You may not loan, rent or lease the software product. You may not duplicate the manual that comes with the software product." 

And where does that say you cannot distribute your King's Field game? Plus this is a translation. It doesn't say anything about not selling your game either. Selling fan mad stuff is common in Japan. Never mind this is the same disclaimer you'll find on every single piece of software. It isn't a document outlining what you can do with the games you make with SOM. If you own a copy of SOM you can make a game and distribute it. And From says this contract is only enforceable for Japanese residents. Foreigners enjoy no restrictions. And are not forbidden to own a copy of SOM by way of a Japanese reseller.

The game.exe file is part of the runtime. It isn't part of SOM. Not being honest huh?

[Holy_Diver]

That FF4 remake has been around for a long time. It was probably on one of Nintendo's portables originally.

not the gameboy advance title, I meant this one     
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.square_enix.android_googleplay.FFIV_GP&feature=search_result#?t=W10.

Best 15 bucks I spent in some time however, the 16 bit version still is the best..... I will probably never go through this new version ever again , in fact I have already deleted it since completing it. The SNES version I will most certainly play again, and again :)                       .............................ML

Nintendo has portables that are 3D. Only FF1 and 2 got 2D remake treatments (they were actually originally done for the WonderSwan Color. The height of handheld technology. 3 was supposed to get the same treatment but it got a 3D job like 4 instead.)

(My WonderSwan is actually the FF2 edition.)