A side project, a challenge, a question, all in one...

[Hguols]

I took a break from my current project to work on something I've had on my mind for quite some time.  Affectionately entitled "More Maps, More Problems" or MMMP for short, this is a little side experiment of mine.

I discovered with all the different versions of Diadem of Maunstraut, that game errors and/or slowdown occur when more maps are traversed.  (keep in mind, this was on an older XP machine) It seemed that by the 4th or 5th map the character warped to, it caused a crash.  I have not tried the game with Windows 7.

I made something that I'd like you guys to experiment with yourselves.  
(I hope it was ok that I used the server Todd)

http://www.swordofmoonlight.com/mmmp_runtime.zip - 35MB
(sorry, runtime only)

This is not a created runtime, but the som file and folders to open it up with the SOM program.  Part of the experiment is to see if you can create a get this runtime from this, and get it to work.  Sounds simple enough, eh?

What this is is 25 maps, all virtually identical.  Each map has one object, one item, one enemy and one event.  Approaching the object (altar) warps your character to the next number map.  The 25th map will warp you to the first map.  Testing the map in the SOM program, I had no problems....  I could go from map to map to map with ease.

Creating a runtime on my end was a completely different animal though.  I start the game, and it crashes on me.  I tried different compatibilities and got the same results.  I've checked and re-checked everything I made, and I get returned to my desktop a few seconds after I select "New Game".

My question is, do each of you guys have the same problem?  For obvious reasons, if I'm the only one that can't create a runtime from this - the problem is on my end.  If you guys have the same problem, then its more our problem, with SOM in general.

My challenge is to get this working as a runtime, without reducing the numbers of maps.  Feel to find any errors in what I've made that might cause this freeze.  

I look forward to what you guys will report....

[HwitVlf]

I think maybe the posted file is the wrong one. It is only 18KB and seems to only have one map included.
Do you have 'NONE' set for the 'opening map' in the System editor?  I always miss that one. Seems like it should be in the Map Editor.

[Hguols]

No, I had the first map selected for the starting map.  (Cause I've missed that one too)

Um...   I'll have to try to re-upload this after work.  Sorry guys!

I made one mistake.  Its actually 17kb, not 17MB.  (I added an extra figure there - teehee)
For two, that IS the file.  Its 25 maps.....  granted, they're all named "NEW MAP" in the pick map menu, but I wouldn't think the names would matter.  

I downloaded the ZIP, I loaded SOM, and loaded this folder into it, and its all showing up for me.

Anyone else?

EDIT:  I made a separate file with different map names.  ...and yes, the default starting map, setup in the system parameter is NEW MAP 01.
http://www.swordofmoonlight.com/MMMP.zip - 18kb.

This is the correct file.  ....and I still get a crash.

[HwitVlf]

Something seems wrong. If you look in the posted MMMP.zip 'map' folder, there is only a file for 'map00'. And map 00 has no Objects on it so it couldn't have a warp event.

When I test the map, it's just a blank room with nothing. Also, the posted project shows the starting map as 'NONE'. Maybe you're experiencing some of that Win7 administrative rights security crud. . . I mean WONDERFUL security features. Win7 may have saved some of the project files in a different location, or blocked them from getting written in the first place.

[Hguols]

I don't understand.  I'm showing the same files in the folder you mentioned!  No more, no less, but I have 25 maps of everything I mentioned.

MMMP should be 28 files in 7 folders.  If you're showing the same thing, then I'm not sure what to tell you. 
I'm running off the same thing and it loads in SOM!

What happens when you try to pull up the .som file in the map editor?
Have you tried to make a runtime?

I'm running this program as an administrator.  I haven't had any problems so far.... 
I created a runtime with the new game I'm working on and haven't had any problems.  (unlike MMMP which dies to desktop for me)

[HwitVlf]

Windows sometimes keeps multiple copies of files - one for 'everyone' and one for each user. Maybe SoM is loading the 'everyone' version and what you posted in the 'user specific' copy or visa versa. You might try searching the C drive for "MMMP" and see if multiple copies come up.

If you rename the project's folder (the posted version), I'll bet the 'complete project' version (that you're seeing in the map editor etc) will NOT show as renamed.  

To answer your questions, the project does open in my Map Editor and 'compile', it just has 1 map with a single room and no objects etc.

[Verdite]

The only input i can give is that i had a cavern set that SoM couldnt process in the runtime. It was these map pieces that caused the crash... Even with just one piece in a map it would crash. So it may be something to do with a map piece.

[Hguols]

I've never had a problem sending someone something like this before.  I searched C: and the only mentions of MMMP are where its at, and recents/shortcuts.

The only other option I have is submitting the runtime itself.  Compressed to a ZIP, its 35MB. 

http://www.swordofmoonlight.com/mmmp_runtime.zip

It crashes for me. 
_____________________

Ben, I didn't use any custom map pieces in this....  I use the pieces included with this example and more in my other games, and haven't had any problems.

To further what I was talking about, I think the crashing is related to the maps. 
I don't think SOM is capable of handling maps, even though its designed to.  (and I'd love if the brains here could figure out a way around this)

[HwitVlf]

That's a bit baffling. I suspect it's some Win7 shenanigan rather than an SoM bug, but short of seeing your setup myself, I don't know much more to suggest. When you load the project using the 'existing project' button, you might try to 'cut' the MMMP folder out of the pop-up window and paste it to your desktop rather than opening it. If Windows is splitting the files in some weird way, that might move them all to one place.

Your posted 'compiled' game still only has one map and it 'quits' when I try it, just like there is no opening map selected (ie not a crash). But I re-made the test project you were going for (attached), so hopefully people will run through it and answer your quandary. I ran through the 'loop' twice and had no problems or slowdown- both in the test project, and in the compiled game.

A note, the main bulk in a compiled game comes from the map Piece textures. SoM copies all Piece textures to the compiled game even if they aren't used in the game. You can make a game MUCH smaller by deleting unused textures from the compiled game folders. I got your 35MB zip down to ~1MB that way.   

[Hguols]

That's the thing, I had a similar problem on XP creating a map similar to this MMMP project.  I don't think I shared the results with you John, but it was the entire reason that Trismegistus has no more than a 2 map hierarchy.  

There's two things that make me believe SOM is the culprit.

 - This sort of thing still crashed on XP when I made it on that machine.
 - My one-map runtime created on Windows 7 has no reported problems.  

I don't know how many maps is too many, but DOM was the best indicator.  (5 map hierarchy)
_____________________

I have a big favor to ask of you John.

Please try to create something similar on your machine.  Just a simple hallway, an object, an enemy, an item, and an event detailed warp on an object to the next map, and have 25 maps total, all of them linked together through that detailed warp.  (it only took me about 15-20 minutes to make but I completely abused pick map's copy and paste function.)

I firmly believe you'll have very similar problems whenever you create a runtime.
If your project runs without problems, I'll eat my hat.  (not literally, sorry.  :P ) and I have some work to do regarding Windows 7 and SOM compatibility.

If you project has the same problems, maybe we could all get our heads together and spot something in the programming.  It would be nice if it was as simple as changing something in the EXE.  (like paddfg6)