Sword of Moonlight Forum
The Water Cooler => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xethuminra on July 31, 2014, 06:54:47 pm
-
Hello! If you've played King's Field II (US), I'd like to hear your thoughts on this concept...
Vallad is not really who he says he is
The truth is... Vallad is a ruse and a manifestation of the Black Dragon, Guyra
First of all....
Dark Gods love pretending to be the good guys in From Software games
Now.... as for Guyra masquerading as Vallad
Guyra has done this sort of thing before.
Guyra was "secretly" responsible for a lot of things in King's Field, things which were not actually connected to Guyra until way later in the series
We find out that The Royal Cemetery was originally built for the resurrection of Guyra
The dark place beyond the chasm before the final boss of King's Field (JP) was actually a portal to the dimension of Guyra
Milia, the force of "good" in KF(JP), who can empower the Sword of Moonlight, just like King Alfred's spirit, is an emissary of Guyra
The Sword of Moonlight was stolen from Alfred by Guyra
King's Field (US) is about how The Sword of Moonlight was created by, yes, Guyra
However, interestingly, King's Field II (US) states that the sword was created by "Vallad"
Hmmm.....
So, if it was actually Vallad who made the sword, and not Guyra, why would "Vallad" tell Lyle to seek Guyra to repair the Sword of Moonlight?
Who is Vallad anyway?
Vallad is a talking, pale blue crystalline "tree", who claims to be the father of humanity
And pretty much all life on Earth
Well, everything Guyra put his hands on was made from sentient, pale blue crystals
And, who can corroborate "Vallad's" story?
Nobody. Not even Orladin.
Who, by the way, was known for summoning demons and has been decapitated, similar to Alfred's (Seath's) guards and the mysterious Black Knight
Really bad people
Speaking of Orladin, why would Vallad reveal himself only to the Elf Ichrius... Why not the dwarves?
Who were the gods of the Elves?
Seath and Guyra
Not convinced?
At the end of KFII (us), why did the narrator use an evil voice to talk as "Vallad"?
In the epilogue of KF (us), the narrator uses the very same evil voice only one time....
To say the name "Guyra"
Get it?
Also....
What is Necron doing in Shadow Tower, seducing the King?
Why does the Dread Knight have a pale blue crystal sticking through his body?
Why does the Demon King's crown look like the Phantom Crown?
Why does the Divine Symbol/first boss look a lot like the Ichrius Key/Symbol of Verdite?
The answer is simple...
Guyra, the Black Dragon, tricked you and won at the end of KFII(US), leading directly into Shadow Tower.
-
I'm not sure about the rest, but I'm pretty sure KF and Shadow Tower aren't connected. The only possible way to connect them seems to be conspiracies. Necron died in KF anyway. The Necron in Shadow Tower is likely just a tribute to KF. I'm also seem to remember a pilot by the same name in one of the first Armored Core games. It's possible that the name Necron was meant to be Fromsoft's "signature" before the Moonlight Sword was.
-
How about the Divine Symbol and boss of Human World looking kinda like the Ichrius Key? With the head, wings and tail
-
Kinda like how the Symbol of Verdite burns away to reveal, I am assuming, Seath at the end of KFII(US)
What's the connection between Seath and the Symbol of Verdite?
-
I was considering not even including the ST ideas. I am much more interested in the identity of Vallad
-
To my knowledge Seath and Guyra are the living embodiments of Vallad's will and spirit (sort of like Jesus in christianity is part of the 'holy trinity' yet the father the son and holy ghost are all one in the same), so technically speaking Guyra is Vallad in a way :)
-
Only according to Vallad himself. There is actually nothing within the game to suggest that he is telling the truth. How do you explain the contradicting origin stories of the SoM?
-
Nobody?...really?
-
Well I would explain any inconsistencies on poor translation or just error on the part of the programmers.
The fact of the matter is you can use the truth glass on a variety of things that mentions the name Vallad as its own entity separate from Guyra or Seath, and to my knowledge, the truth glass never lies.
-
To my knowledge, there are no such mistranslations in King's Fiels. I can't think of anything from the Truth Mirror which actually mentions Vallad. The first time you hear of him is from his own dialogue.
-
There's also the issue of Alfred's strange behavior in the bad ending
-
-shrug-
-
Ha, an interesting thought. Would make a neat twist for a sequel.
The KF2 US story was significantly rewritten by Agetec compared to the Japanese version. Probably by Agetec producer Mark Johnson who once said on Agetec's forums that he had 'worked' on the story and wrote the Chronicles of Verdite from the KF2 official strategy guide.
In the KF Japanese version, Guyra made the Moonlight Sword to and it was handed down in the Forester family, but Agetec changed that saying that it was given to King Alfred by Vallad.
I don't think Seath and Guyra were supposed to be good and evil so much as selfish incarnations of the Asian Yin/Yang philosophy. Evil is not 'bad' it's more like a source of strength and determination whereas 'good' is a source of compassion and order. Guyra craved power and Seath craved order (ie through control) and they hated each other like any decent yin/yang allegory must.
I don't know that the monsters which accompanied the dragons were the dragon's henchmen as much as evil spirits unleashed on the world when the dragon's 'opened' doors to the human world in order to manipulate stuff. There are lines in the game that suggest the dragons actually lived in other dimensions and couldn't hurt each other directly so they used humanity as pawns to 'kill' each other. Both of them were trying to find powerful humans to posses and thus make their will manifest in the mortal world.
That evil voice for Vallad always seemed like an odd choice to me. Seems like something was behind it... I would expect the story writers at Fromsoft had a lot more background in mind than was directly laid out in the game. So really, anything you image could be correct.
-
Well, I knew about the name changes in the localized version. There are many item descriptions and npc names which are different in the localized versions of From Software games, all the way up to Dark Souls, actually. Honestly, I was really hoping that nobody would bring it up, at least for awhile. Looks like I would have to do a translation of the Japanese games to get the real deal. For all I know, Necron in Shadow Tower is a completely different character with a different name in the Japanese version.
Oh joy.
Did Agetec really change the origin story of the SoM in KFII(us)? I would love to confirm this without translating the Japanese game.
Also, I really like your comparison between Seath and Guyra and Yin and Yang. I totally see it, and it fits thematically.
Yeah, each of them has their own "space dimension". I wasn't aware of them being confined to it, but it would make sense. Guyra was trying to resurrect himself....
I thought that the creatures produced during the war between Guyra and Seath were made to guard and battle for the gods. I am unaware of any unintentional byproducts but that doesn't mean I couldn't be wrong.
From Software's fantasy videogames have always been ambiguous and open to interpretation.
Which is exactly why I find the relationship between Seath and Guyra so fascinating...
King's Field 3 was the last time they actually explained everything!
Does Vallad even exist in the Japanese version? Hahaha
Checking around with the Mirror of Truth today to find mention of Vallad.
-
Crazy Joe Santos, of all the people, is the only one to mention "Vallad's" name.
Wow
The Truth Glass describes the "Dragon King Plant" as being a manifestation of Vallad
It doesn't prove that Vallad is exactly who he says he is.
The Sword of Moonlight's item description, according to Mark, is that Vallad created the sword.
But now I am questioning the translation.
And Orladin and his two disciples were jerks.
Did anybody ever figure out what the Giant's secret was?
Where did Shudom and the last giant go?
Kinda reminds me of DSII ;)
-
Shudom and the last giant went to Verdite - they died outside the earth cave as Shudom's grave is there along with the remains of the last of his 'children'. I presumed Shudom, in his typical mickey mouse fashion, made the promeus golems and lost control of them, he and his giants were then stuck in that cave defending themselves to the end.
I am glad you called them jerks :) I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought they were...when I added lore for them in Dark Destiny some folks couldn't figure out why I made them out to be selfish and or incompetant in some ways. Same goes for Orladin, great archmage as he was he was still flawed a plenty!
-
According to my US version lol
Thedek summoned dangerous demons for old King Harvine
The talking giant skeleton said that Shuddom left the cave with the giant's brother to a land in the north (sound familiar?)
But not before Shuddom created at least two kinds of clay golems, at least one of which was actually killing the giants and fighting with Shuddom... hence Shuddom fleeing the cave.
What was the secret of the Giants? I remember receiving a key
-
Vallad did exist in the Japanese the same as the US version. Here are a couple interesting Japanese links:
Encyclopedia Auto-Trans (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~in_eARTh/k_f/contents/history_of_kf/history_of_kf_lexicon.html&usg=ALkJrhid-5zwVOBY6_dAoPtYVcZoFz5rew#moonlight_soward)
Relation chart Japanese (http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~in_eARTh/k_f/index_top.html) / Auto Trans (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww7a.biglobe.ne.jp%2F~in_eARTh%2Fk_f%2Fcontents%2Fhistory_of_kf%2Fhistory_of_kf.html)
The significant changes that I know of were the source of the Moonlight Sword, and the single warrior who supposedly saved Verdite in ancient times became a group of Dragon Warriors.
I don't think Agetec was mistranslating, they were partnered with Fromsoft during the development of KF2(US) and contributed to the story from the beginning. It's just that since KFJ was never released in the US I think Agetec didn't feel compelled to include its lore in the English storyline whereas the Japanese version had to.
-
Ah, but the original lore from King's Field (JP) was included in the US version of King's Field III.
The Royal Sanctuary plays a critical part in the story, towards the end of the game
As for the Dragon of the Forest/Hero of Verdite, I didn't think it had much relevance but i could be mistaken... Sounds like more dragon god shenanigans to me
(Guyra) :madani:
-
Fascinating links btw
Gonna take me awhile to digest that haha
-
The Sword of Moonlight's item description, according to Mark, is that Vallad created the sword.
But now I am questioning the translation.
When you think about it, Guyra is apart of Vallad. So in a way Vallad made the sword through Guyra.
-
Auric, evidently the original Japanese text names Guyra as the sword's creator
-
I know. It's just that Guyra is apart of Vallad. So doesn't that mean if Guyra made the sword of moonlight then it was also made by Vallad as well? I'm just trying to make it so that both are right
-
I won't spoil the ending, but in Return to Melanat there was originally going to be an intro cutscene where Vallad briefs you in Verdite Castle before the prince journeys to Melanat. Let's just say that my game unintentionally supports this theory, LOL.
-
I mean, if anybody has anything supporting Vallad's claims, I'd really like to hear it.
We have his word, the Truth Glass confirms the name, and... That's it
Anybody?
-
Well there may be one more thing to help advocate the existence of Vallad. As you have already stated, he has a raspy male voice (god awful voice over if you ask me). I think, but wouldn't swear to it, someone on these forums has suggested in the Japanese version at least that Guyra was female? I think it was Holydiver who made the claim insisting he had read all the Japanese text but I couldn't be certain.
John - wanna take a stab at that one...I know you've had your fair share of time reading through the Japanese dialogs.
-
For a God of the Earth, Vallad sure does love light magic...
Just like Guyra
-
I think, but wouldn't swear to it, someone on these forums has suggested in the Japanese version at least that Guyra was female? I think it was Holydiver who made the claim insisting he had read all the Japanese text but I couldn't be certain.
John - wanna take a stab at that one...I know you've had your fair share of time reading through the Japanese dialogs.
I looked through the references to Guyra in KF2(Jap) and then used those to look up the original Japanese text and I don't find any reference to Guyra being female. Japanese isn't big on gender-determining pronouns so it's often hard to tell. There are several forms of "I" that can tell gender, but I don't find any of those. Other people always refer to him as Guyra without a gender determiner.
I did find one place where the word "mother" is used in the same sentence as Guyra's name, but it isn't referring to Guyra. The official translation read:
The Guards of Endless Time are the Woods, the Winds and the Fog. Everything is created and destroyed by the earth. For everyone who loves their mother, Guyra must be destroyed.
What it actually says is:
The fog, wind and forest guard the eternal cycle. Everything is created and destroyed by the will of the earth. You must defeat Guyra for everyone who loves mother earth.
Maybe someone thought 'mother earth' was referring to guyra? If someone wants to double check my translation:
永遠の時を護るもの、それは森と風そして霧。
すべては大地の意志により創りだされ、また滅びる。
大地を母とする者達のためギーラを倒さねばならぬ。
Attached are some interesting bits about Guyra from KF(US):
-
Hey Wolf
Yeah, I think you were right the first time with the last line... Given the parsing, I can't imagine it meaning anything other than "... must defeat Guyra"
Now, one could possibly interpret Guyra as Mother Earth in the sense that "If you love her, you must defeat her", but that's another story...
-
That could actually fit! Since Vallad is the Earth dude, who would be re-unified when the two dragons were defeated.
:tinfoil: I think I might be an official nerd :tinfoil:
:biggrin:
-
Oh, man. I was expecting zero activity on this board after two weeks.
So, can we agree on Guyra being the source of the fabled sword?
-
"Behind everything, the hidden truth is obscured, but it is not obvious." - mark Johnson
If it weren't for a small inscription in an optional area in King's Field II (JP), we'd still think Tsedeck was a reasonably nice guy...
Thanks to this small inscription, we know that Tsedeck actually destroyed Harvine and conquered his kingdom.
It is hardly uncommon for the good guys to turn out to be bad guys in disguise in King's Field games.
If it weren't for a small note in a truth mirror description for a transitional area in King's Field III (JP), we'd still think that the Forest Dragon of the Royal Cemetery was a reasonably nice guy, working for "Vallad" probably....
However, thanks to this small description, we know that the Forest Dragon was in fact, and I quote, "a manifestation of Guyra" the Black Dragon of Light
The Forest Dragon, and the fairy Miria, are practically direct analogs of Vallad..
Both help you repair the sword of moonlight to conquer an impending darkness which took your father
Both are actually pawns of Guyra and there is no obvious in-game evidence to prove it...
Without these almost hidden bits of information, characters like Gwynevere and the Old One, and even God himself ;)
are cast in a very different light
-
Btw
King Alfred's spirit does not speak with Lyle in the evil ending of KFII(us)
It's worth noting that in "Vallad's" story, there is no god to represent fire.
Does anybody know where Orladin and Leon went off to?
Does Vallad have any other dialogue after he sends you away with the Ichrius armor?
What's up with Merril Ur and why does Light regard him as a villain, whilst praising him at the same time for thwarting Guyra's resurrection in the Royal Cemetery...
More contradictions!
It would be cool to compile a complete list of Truth Glass descriptions.
-
The idea of Vallad being Guyra and tricking Lyle by imbuing him with light magic reminds me of how Necron gave daylight to the people on Melanat to gain their trust.
Give a guy some "holy" power and spin him a feasible story, stay behind the scenes, resurrect a few corpses, no problems. Sound familiar?
Miria also graciously recharges the sword of moonlight for you while the dragon remains ever silent in the background, these two known accomplices of Guyra, who remained free of suspicion until KF3.
Was the white light who manifested before Hauser and gifted him the sword actually Vallad or was it Guyra, the creator of the sword and sole reason for its existence?
The purpose of the sword is to gather energy for the resurrection of the dragon.
Why would that have changed in KF3?
In KF(us), it is stated that Guyra broke a black crystal which contained and/or disrupted the power of nature, before creating the SoM for his champions.
Leon breaks a black crystal as well, for Alexander, to craft the Dark Slayer.
Interestingly, Seath is accused of distributing dark power himself by the talking elf crystal in KF(us).
Yet Seath was the good god of that game. The only way Alexander could defeat Guyra was through Seath's power. We were meant to feel sympathy for Seath. You could almost say that he was the Vallad of KF(us).
Well...
We all know how that turned out...
Distributor of darkness indeed
The original Japanese version of the game doesn't even mention Vallad in the truth glass entries. It calls that thing the Dragon King Plant, who identifies itself as Vallad.
Maybe we will never know the truth, whatever it is. It is a fictional fantasy world, and the evidence may be inconclusive.
Isn't that the one of the central themes of Dark Souls?
lost history
Regardless of Vallad's existence, KF3 is a beautiful story about humanity employing a broken force of evil (Guyra) to defend against a corrupt force of good (Seath)
-
The following wall of text is going to be my last post on this topic for awhile unless any of you Hollows out there care to take a stab at it
There's a lot of information here and I am offering an alternative theory to the conventional understanding of the King's Field Trilogy.
The truth mirror in KF(JP) states that it was the Forest Dragon/Miria who were responsible for handing the SoM to Hauser. BAM!!
Aight? Check it out now...
King's Field (JP) and King's Field (US) really have very little to do with each other besides the basics.
There's some recurring items, Alfred, the SoM, the country of Verdite.... animated human remains and monster labyrinths... and that's about it..
Aside from imparting the all important origin story of the SoM, King's Field (US) didn't go into any of the open-ended questions left behind by its predecessor, King's Field (JP)... Such as the meaning of the Royal Sanctuary, the Black Knight, the Dark World, or your benefactor known as the Forest Dragon/Miria.
It features a new story involving the aforementioned elements from KF(JP), while sporting new characters and a new mythos; Seath and Guyra, creator of the sword of light on the island Melanat.
The next game, King's Field 2 (US), addresses some of these previously unanswered questions by connecting Guyra with the Royal Cemetery and Miria, explaining a good portion of the original KF(JP) in the process.
However...
(If you don't know what I'm talking about, in KF2(US), use the Truth Glass on the 5th floor of the Royal Sanctuary, "Guyra's Sleeping Quarters" - it says that Miria is the shadow of Guyra and fights for his revival)
Considering how the Forest Dragon and his fairy friend are the innocent good guys in KF(JP), wouldn't it make much more sense for them to be connected with Vallad instead of Guyra?
The dragon gave the Sword of Moonlight to Hauser.
Yet it was Guyra who created the sword...
But Miria certainly didn't seem like Guyra's people!
Neither does Vallad, right?
Miria and Vallad's actions are almost parallel...
Both Vallad and Miria are age-old demi-god guardians of life and justice, who are on their last leg, still trying to keep the darkness at bay through their respective emissaries and champions. They help you avenge your father, repair the sword of moonlight, and usher in a golden age for your kingdom by thwarting a dark nemesis...
Except Miria turns out to be working for the dark nemesis!
In numerous ways, Vallad is also very similar to Seath, who was the hero god figure of KFII(JP)/KF(US) before Vallad.
Seath also turns out to be in league with the darkness, with no little to no warning, other than seeming a little bit "strange" on Melanat.
I see a trend developing.
Miria, Seath and Vallad
As for things in Vallad's favor...
Orladin actually says Vallad's name one time, haha. Yeah, okay! The skeleton with the Demon Key for a head and a shield with eyes enigmatically hidden within it...
As stated earlier, the only other npc to mention Vallad is the totally crazy guy Joe Santos, who also talks about the Light family, who is connected to Guyra. This guy thinks he's a glass of orange juice.
Not even Alexander or Alfred actually say Vallad's name....
How did Necron and Alfred really end up getting possessed by the dark gods anyway?
On the side...
What ever became of Ichrius?
Chronicles of Verdite lore suggests that Tsedeck never actually conquered harvine's kingdom, and Harvine's kingdom actually ended up splitting and becoming Verdite and surrounding countries. Any in game lore to back this up?
Any lore behind the dragon crystal fruit trees on Melanat?
The fire dragons in Verdite castle, is there any lore behind them?
-
http://en.swordofmoonlight.org/wiki/King's_Field_II/list_of_in_game_bios
Cool!
http://en.swordofmoonlight.org/wiki/King%27s_Field/list_of_in_game_bios
Super Cool!
Do you guys not have one for KFIII? I'd be glad to help put it together
-
Apparently, Miria is in KF(us) after all
I was not aware of that
More on Miria and Shuddom soon
-
I think the truth glass means that the "Forest Dragon" is the shadow of Guyra and fights for his revival, not Miria. As far as I know, Miria is one of the fairies created by Guyra to convey his will to the world.
I think it would be great if you entered the KF truth mirror info in the wiki here. (http://www.swordofmoonlight.com/somwiki/) There's never been a really connected synopsis of the game information assembled anywhere that I know of.
A couple of my old KFJ site pages might interest you:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/kingsfield/characters.html
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/kingsfield/items.html
-
I had been using Miria and Millia interchangeably, which is incorrect... More or less ;)
"Sleeping Quarters of Guyra"
"This is the fifth level of the Royal Cemetery. The dragon which appears there is actually Millia, the projected shadow of Guyra. Created by Guyra, Millia protects this place where Guyra hopes to return to the earth...."
Miria in KF(US) - I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one, which is why I haven't posted in awhile... I was unaware of the fairy/mecha-demon cloning tanks on Melanat :eek:
"Miria appears before many warriors. She was created to find the chosen one who has the power to use the "Moonlight Sword.""
Miria's description in KF(JP)
"The dragon’s fairy, she has served the Dragon line since ancient times and appears to people in order to convey the Dragon’s will"
Miria is an extension of Millia, who in turn is an extension of Guyra
I'll start working on a complete list of Truth Glass entries for human NPC's
I'm checking out your pages right now!
-
Forest Dragon - "Since ancient times, it has lived in the forest and defended the people. While it is spoken of in legend and many people believe in it, few have ever seen it. This is the dragon who gave the sword to the Forrester family in days of old."
-
That could actually fit! Since Vallad is the Earth dude, who would be re-unified when the two dragons were defeated.
:tinfoil: I think I might be an official nerd :tinfoil:
:biggrin:
I think, but wouldn't swear to it, someone on these forums has suggested in the Japanese version at least that Guyra was female? I think it was Holydiver who made the claim insisting he had read all the Japanese text but I couldn't be certain.
John - wanna take a stab at that one...I know you've had your fair share of time reading through the Japanese dialogs.
I looked through the references to Guyra in KF2(Jap) and then used those to look up the original Japanese text and I don't find any reference to Guyra being female. Japanese isn't big on gender-determining pronouns so it's often hard to tell. There are several forms of "I" that can tell gender, but I don't find any of those. Other people always refer to him as Guyra without a gender determiner.
I did find one place where the word "mother" is used in the same sentence as Guyra's name, but it isn't referring to Guyra. The official translation read:
The Guards of Endless Time are the Woods, the Winds and the Fog. Everything is created and destroyed by the earth. For everyone who loves their mother, Guyra must be destroyed.
What it actually says is:
The fog, wind and forest guard the eternal cycle. Everything is created and destroyed by the will of the earth. You must defeat Guyra for everyone who loves mother earth.
Maybe someone thought 'mother earth' was referring to guyra? If someone wants to double check my translation:
永遠の時を護るもの、それは森と風そして霧。
すべては大地の意志により創りだされ、また滅びる。
大地を母とする者達のためギーラを倒さねばならぬ。
Attached are some interesting bits about Guyra from KF(US):
Where is this text found in game?
This is one in Vallad's favor, for once
Vallad doesn't appear to be female but, according to him and only him, "he" mothered Seath, Guyra and pretty much all life on Earth.
As to the "fog, winds, and woods" reference, any idea what that means?
Still looking for lore about Dragon Grass and Dragon Fruit Trees
-
I had been using Miria and Millia interchangeably, which is incorrect... More or less ;)
"Sleeping Quarters of Guyra"
"This is the fifth level of the Royal Cemetery. The dragon which appears there is actually Millia, the projected shadow of Guyra. Created by Guyra, Millia protects this place where Guyra hopes to return to the earth...."
I remember that line. It's a mis-translation, or more precisely a misunderstanding of the text because the translator lacked context. They didn't know that there were two people involved so they assumed Miria referred to the dragon.
Here's a rough literal translation of that text:
Guyra's Sleeping Chamber
Originally the 5th level of the Royal Graveyard.
The dragon here is a projected figure of Guyra, and Miria is said to be one of those made by Guyra, it is just here that the mind of Guyra survives, this is believed to be the place where Guyra descended.
ギーラの寝所
元王家墓所5層。存在していた竜は
ギーラの姿が投影されたもの。そし
てミーリアはギーラによって造られ
たものであるといわれ、ギーラの思
念が残るこここそが、ギーラが降り
立った場所であると考えられている
Where is this text found in game?
I seem to remember hearing it in-game near the end, but I don't remember where. I got it off the game disk. The dialog order in the data appears to be the same as it is said by speakers in the game. This quote is 2 panels after something that was apparently said by Earnest Clyde. So the quote was probably said by him or someone near him.
As to the "fog, winds, and woods" reference, any idea what that means?
I would speculate that it means the forces of nature maintain a healthy balance of life and death in the world. Because Guyra is toying with that natural order, he is an enemy to the very fabric of creation.
Attached is a complete copy of the text off the game disk from King's Field 2 (US). I think it would be so cool to create a codex of dialog for each character, and also entries for what is said about various key topics.
-
Boo!
-makes ghostly noises-
:badteeth:
"believed to the place where Guyra descended"?
any more on this?
Does it mean that the Cemetery is the place where Guyra was born? If so, Seath should be involved as well, since they were both born at the same time, split in half, allegedly.
I'm beginning to wonder if Vallad, Seath and Guyra aren't just manifestations of the same malevolent Entity, putting on different faces for different people until something works.
How NPC's and players alike could praise the Sword of Moonlight as being a holy relic, when its sole purpose in the universe is harvesting energy for the resurrection of Guyra, is beyond me.
Again, an agent of Guyra gave the SoM to the Forrester family in the days of old and set in motion this entire chain of strange events.
Accidental or intentional?
Why wouldn't the Forest Dragon just give it to Guyra?
-
The word I translated as "descended" seems to usually mean something like "landed" as in "the astronauts landed on the moon", but it contains the separate components of "stood up after going down". It might simply mean that this is where Guyra retreated to after his defeat on Melenant.
Xethuminra, you should make a graphic novel that pulls all these theories together into an extended story. :wink:
-
So, I've been thinking....
What could have allowed Seath to suddenly possess the good King Alfred?
In King's Field IV, the Idol of Sorrow is responsible for such things.
Then it occurred to me
Alfred has Seath's Dark Slayer
What else could it be?
The Dark Slayer was crafted from a Black Crystal left behind by none other than Seath himself. It was brought back from Melenat to Verdite by Alexander when he recovered the Sword of Moonlight.
Coincidence?
When Alfred is defeated, he leaves behind the Dark Slayer and if you don't have the Sword of Moonlight..... It is strongly implied that Lyle is also possessed by Seath.
What could have possibly caused this? If not the Dark Slayer.
Interestingly enough, Dias may have been possessed by the Sword of Moonlight, which belongs to the element of light and was created by Guyra.... and is also related to a Black Crystal.
When he steals the Sword of Moonlight, Dias is "attracted by a man in the darkside" to the island of Melenat....
Could these two products of the mysterious Black Crystals be the reason for Dias and Alfred's descent into darkness?
-
That actually make a lot of sense to me! The time seems to line up right also.
-
It would seem that there is more than meets the eye with every character in King's Field.
Jean somehow gets possessed by Seath.
Alexander, with all that pomp in KFII's eplougue... yeah, that guy.... he ends up dead not long after returning from Melanat. Thx for the head's up, narrator dude
Seath turns out to be evil
Guyra ends up being helpful
The Forest Dragon was working for Guyra
Tsedeck and Shuddom were jerks.
I would not be surprised if Vallad was the same way....
Does anybody here have access to Vallad's Japanese dialogue and truth mirror description?
I would really appreciate it if you posted it :-)
-
I'm going to be really bust for a couple days, but I'll try to do this soon. I'm curious myself.
In the first two KF games the 'hero' turns out to be the villain (Forest Dragon, Seath) so it makes it a bit hard to feel 'at peace' with the end of the trilogy. I sure wish they'd make a new KF.
-
Any chance you could post screen shots of the Japanese dialog? I don't have a save near the area ad I'm having trouble finding it in the data...
-
Vallad did exist in the Japanese the same as the US version. Here are a couple interesting Japanese links:
Encyclopedia Auto-Trans (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~in_eARTh/k_f/contents/history_of_kf/history_of_kf_lexicon.html&usg=ALkJrhid-5zwVOBY6_dAoPtYVcZoFz5rew#moonlight_soward)
Relation chart Japanese (http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~in_eARTh/k_f/index_top.html) / Auto Trans (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww7a.biglobe.ne.jp%2F~in_eARTh%2Fk_f%2Fcontents%2Fhistory_of_kf%2Fhistory_of_kf.html)
The significant changes that I know of were the source of the Moonlight Sword, and the single warrior who supposedly saved Verdite in ancient times became a group of Dragon Warriors.
I don't think Agetec was mistranslating, they were partnered with Fromsoft during the development of KF2(US) and contributed to the story from the beginning. It's just that since KFJ was never released in the US I think Agetec didn't feel compelled to include its lore in the English storyline whereas the Japanese version had to.
These links contain all the info to answer my questions. Thx again
-
Repost from Gamefaqs, might be relevant to this older thread here on SoM
"I went through the files on my computer and found this dialogue from Fortune Teller which implies that Shaddam Lint was one of Guyra's guards.....
First, some context.
The skeleton of the cyclopian giant, who guarded along side Shaddam, is found north of Necron's coliseum, (where you get the Psycpros Collar) in close proximity to Guyra.
The dialogue says that "many warriors have been "The Guard"
I assume that that warrior before Shaddam was Galth Fee? or did Shaddam take over for Galth Fee. Not sure.
Anywho, here she is.......
http://i.imgur.com/4rNsveQ
I see no other way to interpret this information, considering the location of the one-eyed Giant's skeleton."
-
Interesting! It's been way too long since I played this.