Sword of Moonlight Forum
King's Field Related Games => Dark Souls => Topic started by: ARandomClown on June 27, 2014, 08:01:08 am
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Hi everyone, I'm new here, and I noticed that while there were some trailer threads, and ones about beta testing, there haven't been any about the game itself (which came out quite recently). I bought it just a few days ago on Steam, and I while I really like the game, I feel the difficulty hasn't been upped enough, maybe even a bit easier than Dark Souls 1. I do like the game, however, if you plan to get it on PC, use a controller (like Dark Souls 1). So far the game is great. It seems to have less open world aspects, and you can travel between all the bonfires this time from the start. This takes away slightly from the atmosphere, but it makes traveling across the map a lot easier. I am really enjoying it, and wanted to know who else was too.
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Loved the game myself, preordered every version available to add to my collection and have played through the game several times.
Currently working on my level 280 character anxiously awaiting the first DLC!
I agree with everything you said, to me the game is by far easier than DS1, and although I like the environments better than the original game, the less open world and seamless environment creation is also noticeable to me as well. DS2 has great environments, but they fail to capture the engulfing atmosphere of the first game.
I personally am happy the game is easier as I am not a huge fan of 'cheap' deaths (meaning the game is designed for you to die over and over until you get lucky enough to get through -( like the dual archer area in Andor Londo). I am also a fan of how much improved it is to find your actual RL friends to play co-op with.
My real gripe with DS2 is the unique equipment. I think DS1 did a better job of scattering cool looking and powerful items throughout the game, not relying so completely on exchanging boss souls for the end game equipment. I like finding rare drops that are actually upgrades for my equipment early on, rather than waiting until 3/4 of the game is complete before I can start seeing some of the really cool looking unique items.
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I bought the game, but I haven't even had time to try it out yet! I think most console games have moved away from open environments and toward "hallway maze" game play. I guess less game world makes it easier to create? I don't prefer that style, but it's not the end of the world.
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I've had a chance to play the game a little and I pretty much agree with everything you said RandomClown. You weren't kidding about needing a controller! The PC version controls are clearly a side-thought to the console.
I was a little let down by the quality of the graphics. They aren't bad, but I still remember Crysis for PC way back in 07. I would expect graphics to have improved since then but they actually seem to have gone backwards. It' seems like graphics took a serious nose-dive when PC games were abandoned in favor of consoles. I'm thinking the crummy disk load times on consoles as well as hardware limitations have caused a recession in graphic quality. The main models are okay in DS2, but the backgrounds seem kind of "flat" to me.
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Nothing in Dark Souls II looks as bad as the waterfall in Dark Souls
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To put graphics in perspective a bit from a development standpoint, realize the game was created to run at 720p on the xbox 360 and ps3...the PC version is just a port of a game not designed with today's best graphics chips in mind.
Additionally Crysis was the poster child for high end graphics, most games of its era did not meet those standards. And lastly, the areas in Dark Souls are 100% custom made, when you have to design models for every unique piece of atmosphere to create an intriguing medieval fantasy world from scratch you can't expect them all to be the most uber detailed graphics ever made. Crysis had simple environments, they looked fantastic yes, but a lot of what you are impressed by is super detailed trees/plants and great lighting, altogether I would wager their total environment models used to be less than 1/3 of what was needed to create all the 30 something unique places in DS2.
Literally I can buy a pack of really well modeled trees for Unity and make you a high end looking jungle in about half an hour, but if you asked me to recreate some of the areas of DS1 or 2 I would not be able to do it.
Oh, and I would say the giant forest is probably the worst looking place in the game, it was pretty obvious to me that certain teams worked on different environments as some of them are really quite awesome. Check out this totally from scratch area in the DLC, it looks pretty sweet!
(http://www.twinfinite.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dark-souls-ii-1405449029563_1920x1080.jpg)
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I'm still up in the air about parts of Dark Souls II
The lava in the Iron Keep did not impress me
Neither did the cutaway rendition of a familiar area in the Dragon Memory
The first Dark Souls, and Demon's souls, had very logical level layout. The undead burg, the sewers, stonefeng, latria, even the Valley of Defilement; all were made of relatively sensable areas connected by reasonable means.
Whereas Dark Souls II has more of a confusing, house of random traps and egyptian-like tombs sort of level design.... No-Man's Warf and the Bastile were cool though! Nothing in the game is comparable to the Crystal Caverns though
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I've stated in the past that Dark Souls II feels like a massive downgrade from the first game, and that is still my opinion.
Having looked at the DLC, it does seem to be taking baby steps to remedy this. While Fromsoft did fix the linear level design somewhat, most enemies are still generic humanoids, and bosses are all rehashed in some fashion.
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Of course the enemies are "Human"oid, it's Dark Souls =P
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I think where people have a lot of their issues with DS2 is the fact the project director specifically split his team up into several smaller developer groups. Each was asked to build 1/4 of the starting points of the game (the 4 basic paths to the 4 primal fires) and none of the groups discussed the areas with each other until it was time to sew them together into the game's opening areas. Its well documented that this was indeed the case and the game's director even admits it in his interviews.
The trouble it causes is extreme disconnection between the 4 major paths at the start of the game, it just blows cohesion and sense out of the water when you play through the game expecting each area to have some sort of relation to the next.
Imagine taking a classroom of students at an art academy and having them draw their rendition of a horror movie, throw them all in a box and expect them to go together well. It just won't and didn't happen.
I think that is where most of the let down occurs, when you lose that feeling of submersion in a game's atmosphere. I think the worst case is leaving majula and going to heide's tower...I mean you go from a chill beach town, through one small sewer and bang, you're in the middle of the land of the armored giants, a hop skip and a jump away from mighty bosses etc. From's direction of throwing sub bosses in every area made them feel short and more linear.
That of course doesnt excuse the graphics, but I still persist having to make every model and environment from scratch is far more time consuming and difficult than flooding a landscape with gorgeous prefab jungle plants and hefty lighting. The next time you play through the game take the time to realize that every thing you see is custom made, down to every detail on the floor's shape etc (From did not use a terrain maker like most games, terrain makers allow you to make gigantic areas of land populated with trees/grasses etc in mere mins, they make for awesome looking lands but they are far from unique and are difficult to use for games with linear paths).
I only defend the game because I try to realize that there is more to a great game than the best graphics. I myself would much prefer a team do their diligence on perfecting an environments uniqueness, mood and playability than spend tons of time and money making it super pretty with no content and no inspiration. I can honestly say it would be no big problem for me to recreate the entirety of Skyrim's continent in probably under a month's worth of effort in Unity (meaning the overworld, not going into every house) but I can't imagine how difficult it would be to recreate a Souls game because there is so much custom modelling going on.
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Interesting details and well said points about game development in my opinion. :beerchug:
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As I have always said, smaller teams tend to develop more unique and consistent art in games, but with less content. In the case of DS2, a bigger team has created alot more in terms of scale and diversity, but the diluting and mixing of the art form caused a feeling of seperation.
The player is constantly observing the art in a game, some games I have played with poor controls get a thumbs up from me for the consistent and imaginative artwork.
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Dark Souls II level design.
(http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t568/mastertaffer/what_zps1d547a88.png)
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I have no idea what it means... and it's still funny! :biggrin:
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I have come to realize that there are so many inconsistancies with area transition in Dark Souls II that it couldn't possibly have been an overlooked, unintentional error on From Software's part. There are way too many of them, and most of them are in key locations
Examples
:way to Heide's Tower from sewer:
:way to the Warf from Heide's Tower:
:way to the Keep from the Peak: (nice pic)
:way to Majula from Things Betwixt:
:way to Harvest Valley from Huntsman's Copse?:
Alas, with no lore behind it, what are you to think?
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There are areas in Dark Souls I and II which copy and paste.
A few examples -
The trees in the Shaded Woods
The lava streaming down the walls before the very first Capra demon in the Demon Ruins
The double doors to your first encounter with the Asylum Demon, after the very first bonfire, are extremely poorly textured if you ask me
To name a few
Dark Souls II wouldn't seem so weird, aside from the unexplained magical area transitions, if it weren't for areas like the Heide's Tower and the Blue Cathedral.... Which may as well not exist for how small it is. It looks so big from the outside, so many windows... Ahh! At least Anor Londo had a grueling level to accompany the teasing backdrop of a sprawling cityscape.
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The double doors to your first encounter with the Asylum Demon, after the very first bonfire, are extremely poorly textured if you ask me
Imagine a first person mode :smile: maybe thats one reason why there isnt one.
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I can imagine it
-imagines King's Field on steroids-