Sword of Moonlight Forum
Sword of Moonlight => SOM Guides, FAQ and Help => Topic started by: dmpdesign on January 19, 2009, 11:50:47 am
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Soon I will have a step by step tutorial/manual for using the SOM tool, as well as guides to download and share addons.
In the meantime, check the main page www.swordofmoonlight.com for updates on the SOM sections.
Please check back soon.
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Might be stupid question but I'm new to game making so...
Whenever I test a map I find that nothing likes to fully render till I'm right on top of it. I know I'm just not setting something correctly but I need some help.
Thanks.
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It could be several things, but first, let me know the system specs of the machine youre running on...and what version of direct x youre using.
Secondly, check the map settings option, and see what your draw distance is, and your fog distance is and so on. I recommend starting with a draw distance of about 25.
Thirdly, SOM has some quirks, and if you leave blank sections on the map between two sections you won't see the section beyond the blank gap until youre right up on it. To fix this problem (if you want a blank gap) use the dummy no collission map piece located toward the bottom of the set.
If none of this stuff has helped, I will need more details about what youre making.
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Ok...specs
XP home SP2
2.16 GHz
512mb RAM
Direct X 9.0a
NVIDIA GeForce 4 something?
Draw dist. 30
Fog opts. all at 0
No blank spaces between filled spaces
If I left something important out sorry.
Thanks for helping
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Sorry I didnt reply sooner.
Change your fog distance to .5 or about halfway up the bar. If its set at 0 I think that means it begins fog immediately and might have something to do with the fact your game looks odd.
If it still looks weird, set your draw distance to something huge like 100 and test again.
If none of this helps, we will need to get down to more specifics. Which map parts are you using to construct the map? is it an indoor or outdoor scene? Have you placed any objects on the map? Have you made sure to enable direct3d before running the actual test for the map?
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I'm sort of hamstrung, but I finally got SoM on a computer that will work all the way with it (WinXP with hardware accelerated graphics disabled -- for the map graphics preview box)
Anyway, the map-editor seems like a nightmare. I will look for some tutorials but in the meantime I could use any advice in using it. For one, just clicking on the map tends to scar the map by default!? With only one chance to undo. I will try to look for guides, but it seems hard to just pick a square and find out what is going on there...
From the looks of games like DoM I would guess you can layer map elements somewhat, but on the other hand I'm not so sure. Anyway, whoever thought of this way of creating a level must've been a sadist :twisted:
PS: Are there really no hotkeys?? Do you really have to do everything with a mouse!? And how do I copy a tile, if clicking on it immediately changes it :evil: (oh, nvm... discovered shift+click...)
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^Update: I'm getting the hang of it, but I feel totally limited by the tile selection. If only tiles had multiple layers I feel like there would be a world of possibilities. I loaded Tom's DoM map, and I'm using the tiles I'm given... my guess is that is probably the complete tiles set that comes with SoM, but if not, maybe I should look for more.
Is there a tile composer tool at least?? At any rate, it seems like so much could've been done, if SoM just let you work with shapes, and choose from a number of textures from shapes, and then let you layer elements, like walls, ontop of grass, and such. Maybe if walls were in the list of obstacles (like barrels / if they're not) we could get something like that going. Otherwise seems like the best thing to do sticking with this paradigm is quadruple the tile selection (if even possible)
Maybe instead of remaking SoM, we could start by just making new SoM tools... as soon as we can crack the file formats that is.
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I agree whole heartedly about the map pieces, the lack of layers or what i call tiered map tiles is completely weak...but it was designed to emulate KF1 which did not use multi-tiered map tiles either (what a shame this tool wasnt designed for KF2 or 3).
There is hope...through great efforts you can create map pieces that have high walls, multiple tiers and rounded graphics, but i am not exaggerating when i say 'great efforts'
the 50 some piece set I created just to emulate the outside cliffs of KF3's high elf ruins took a VERY long time to make, and they still have bugs and dont look that great.
I would gladly volunteer my time to create some multi tiered cave and castle sets except there is a huge limitation to SOM's map part capability in that it can only hold like 1024 pieces.
Granted, many of the sets in the tool to begin with are simple reskins of the other sets (5 repeats in all I think?) and it would probably be useful to eliminate a few of the repeats and utilize the 100-200 extra map tiles to create something epic..something I will likely do...but only after i finish DD as it is currently utilizing tiles from every set available..and i dont want to mess that up.
For now, monkey with the custom snow and cliff set I made, get the hang of using the 'activity' option so you can see a close up of whats going on at the tile level, then when i get finished with DD I will work on getting some better map pieces to load for a new project.
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Yeah, there really needs to be a huge collection of tile sets, and some way to shop for just the sets you want to use in a given game. The number of tiles I'm seeing is way more than you need for a game (I'd be interested to know how close the default set is to the max number of tile limits)
Truth is though it should be possible to make tools that pretty much achieve all of this, then spit out a tileset based on your choices. The only problem then is working with them (but of course you could even replace the map editor completely so you didn't even have to think in that paradigm)
I gotta admit though, if not for SoM I never would've thought making a 3D games with the old school tile thinking would be possible. It's very charming in a way.... and seems to work very well for this sort of game...
It sort of reduces making the game to a mini-game, which is always handy when you want game-tools to catch on with non-game-making-professionals. I won't say it's efficient in and of itself, but it is a sort of equalizer.
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original set uses just over half the total available slots (somewhere in the 600 range)
The outside set, castle set, houses and moats add another 250ish parts. So with everything from Johns site or my installation batch file, you are left with around 300 tiles...bad thing is, some of the available slots are in between other sets so to keep any new tiles sorted together on the editor, you really want enough open space to keep them by each other, which means numbering them after the 860 range. So I think 1024 is the max, will ask John, and that makes 1024-860 = 164 left to tinker with. If you install my snow/cliff that only leaves you with around 80 to use.
My recommendation is to toss out some of the repetition sets, maybe from 400-600 part numbers.
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I have a question. Not that I haven't been paying attention, but just for a straight answer. Does each tile store everything it needs in itself? Or do they store the models and textures separately, then each tile just refs an external model (collision model too?) and a texture?
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each map piece consists of these parts:
icon - the map piece icon you on the editor
map icon - the icon it generates when you use the in game map feature
model file - .msm file which contains the frame of the map piece and references the associated .txr or texture file
the collission data - .mhm file which tells it where the boundaries of the map piece are.
for a quick look at it, install the tools and run the prtsedit.exe program, youll see all the stuff (except texture file) that goes into a map piece.
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^Yes, but which if any of those parts are shared by other tiles if applicable?
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I suppose it could be documented?
Removing map parts from the list in the map editor would only entail removing (or moving to another folder) the part info itself, so the model, collision, icon etc doesnt need to be deleted. Its not real important to know which files are shared...but I suppose for the sake of completely cataloging the program, we could get a project going to document what files each part uses.
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^Yeah I can do anything like that.
I think an ultimate solution to this sort of thing though is to sit down and work out a system, so that the game author decides their catalogue of pieces in advance, then "shops" so to speak for the ones they want from a master catalogue... then compile that into their final personalized set -- per project. Of course tools to add pieces to already compiled sets would be required (and if the author didn't leave holes in their own catalogue then they would either have to append sets to the end, disjoint, or we could surely eventually come up with a tool to go over your project and convert the whole thing to a new piece layout)
I'm dedicated to back supporting SoM as much as possible, regardless of how perfunctory it's legacy is. If nothing else it is a fine rapid prototyping tool... especially if you want your finished game to feel as much like SoM as possible. Some aspects of SoM just feel unfinished, so maybe part of a remake project could just be to make a more finished form of SoM for the From' cults. To be honest, the exe that runs SoM is so simple, I could probably program it from scratch in a week. The tool itself is a little more sophisticated (what's going to take me so long to pull out a remake actually, is the fact that I'm doing it all in my own programming paradigm, which is radically open ended and ambitious -- SoM remake merely being the simplest of demonstrations)
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I was checking out your DD screens, and I think I realize what you meant about putting the sloping pieces behind the walls to make a larger slope...
(http://www.swordofmoonlight.com/Images/ThedecksKeep.jpg)
I just wasn't thinking in terms of steps I guess :twisted:
That looks better than nothing I suppose.
PS: You could probably fashion a patch object to close the gap over the cave^
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A patch is already in the works ;)
Those are ancient screens!
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^I could use that patch when it's ready :twisted:
PS: I used that stepping technique to add a lot of atmosphere to the beginning of DoM. So far just in my area's mostly. But I'll add it all around the beginning map, and the later castle courtyard map (I pushed back the draw distance just slightly so you can see beyond the tops of the hill walls -- so all the stuff up there is just barely in view usually)
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Hi, I am new to the platform but I would like to learn more about SOM.
My computer specs currently are:
Windows 7 Home Premium
3.4 GHz
12 GB
Direct X 11
AMD RADEON HD 6450
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@Zoreo
I have a laptop with similar specs, you should be able to run the program just fine. I'd recommend playing a few SOM games, then making a short sample game to familiarize yourself with the program. There's also a sample game included with the download that you can look to for reference. If you have any questions, PM me on here/facebook or add me on Skype (I'd respond quicker), as I can help with both the basic and advanced stuff. There are also tons of tutorials on this site that you can find with a simple search.
Welcome to the forum and good luck! :beerchug:
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Hello is there anyway to have the game in windowed mode? because i can't seem to find a way to set it like that, so i was wondering if there was a way to set too windowed mode or not?
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I don't think it's possible to run SOM in windowed mode. You can minimized the game by pressing Alt + Tab, but that's about it.
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Standard SOM definitely cannot be run in a window, maybe SomEx can do it? But that requires the game itself be made to include it in its distribution, which to my knowledge no one is yet doing. If anyone out there has taken the time to put together an .exe of an SOM game that runs with SomEx please let me know, I would like to try it out.
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Dose anyone know how to I make a tile with no roof or make a tile at all for that point :confused:
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Hey sorry, didn't see the post. yes there is definitely a way to create map pieces that do not have roofs, in fact the SOM editor should have come with several such sets.
If you do not like the parts that came with the editor please post here and we can get you help on creating your own custom map parts, it isnt terribly difficult, you just have to know some of the pitfalls to avoid when making new map parts.
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My God that would be outstanding. I haven't been able to continue in like a month. :biggrin:
Please get back to me :biggrin:
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If you need something specific djil:f, describe it to me and I can make it for you. When I get the time I'll write up an in-depth tutorial on how to make and export models for SOM and give it to dmpdesign so he can post it to the homepage.
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Hey all. Newbie here, hopefully this is the right place for such questions.
I'm getting to grips with the map creator atm, want to make a little indentation in the floor, just a lowered section. However when setting the floor tile downwards, it also moves the ceiling which just hovers in the air. Is there a way to differentiate between the two, or.. erm, 'stretch' the tile so there's more of a gap between floor and ceiling?
I haven't found the answer in the tutorial.
Cheers!
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The tiles fit all snug if you know how to use them, are you sure you're placing them right? It might help to look at the sample game for reference on how it's done.
Or I could point out the problem if you post a screenshot of your map in the editor.
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Hey I downloaded one of the sword of moon light games, mystic prelude, and there are missing textures. Please answer me back if you can,
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It's probably just incompatible. Like most of the old timers here JC Bailey refused to use modified versions of SOM to ensure the game works and is enjoyable. I think that their games probably only work without extreme glitches on 20% of computers.
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XD ok.... Well I'm still open to a fix, if anyone has one.
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It depends on if the company that makes the drivers for your computer system faithfully implement quirks of old software. Many companies don't, so that's why the GAME.EXE file wont work. But SOM isn't dead, I maintain it, but JC Baily was irresponsible so their project isn't going to last very long and only ever worked for a minority of users in the first place. Maybe you can update your drivers, but it's really not worth giving thought to. Plus I don't know if this is the best topic/thread to discuss this further.